Who’d want to move to Camden?
I’m short on time, so I’ll try to make this short. The Beeb has reported on xenophobic rabbling from the rural city of Camden where locals have rallied against the establishment of an Islamic school.
Now being a secular kind of guy, I do have concerns about faith-based schools or indeed anything that looks like a faith-based school. Not that I automatically write them off, I just as a bare minimum want guarantees that secular dollars aren’t spent with sectarian bias.
Not that an Islamic (nor other religiously oriented) school couldn’t operate under such an arrangement with the right accountability, checks and balances, I don’t automatically support the existence of any religious school. Even if it doesn’t attract state funds (where child welfare is still an issue).
But these aren’t the concerns grabbing the headlines, nor are matters of civic planning or environment. No.
“Everywhere is being destroyed. Why don’t we tell the truth. They’re wrecking Australia. They’re taking us over,” she said. (Source)
Ahhh… The old argument from supposedly unpleasant truth. If you think this idea is unpalatable, then it must be true! The racists that peddle this line of rubbish are of course projecting their cognitive foibles. Xenophobic notions and assumptions are palatable to them, hence they chose to believe them.
Try talking to a rabid xenophobe. Try pointing out things like the errors in Pauline Hanson’s immigration statistics or Danna Vale’s impossibly hysterical Muslim breeding projections. See how fact-evasive they become.
Their prejudices are just to appealing to them and they try to dodge the fact by suggesting that you reason in the same faulty way that they do. It’s so common it’s probably memetic.
Then there’s some chap in his 70’s who apparently got cheered for his less than intelligent efforts.
“Can I just say this without being racist or political?” he said. “In 1983, in the streets of London a parade by Muslims chanted incessantly ‘If we can take London, we can take the world’. Don’t let them take Camden.” (Source)
Okay, firstly. Cognitive dissonance; no you can’t say something racist or political without being racist or political. Perhaps he meant “..without my argument being described as racist or political?” in which case the answer is no. Australia is a democracy and one with a constitution influenced by enlightenment thinking, which means anything put on the public record can be criticised.
Secondly, just because some hot head Muslims talked crap about hegemony doesn’t mean that all Muslims have hegemonic goals. Just because there is this nasty thing called dominion theology amongst some Christians does not mean that all or most Christians adhere to it.
I can think of a further couple of relevant reductios. People opposed to an Islamic school in Sydney lied about a Muslim take-over of a swimming center, ergo people opposed to Islamic schools are all liars. Or… People opposed to supposed Muslim encroachment on Aussie culture demonstrated their violent nature at Cronulla, therefore Mr 70-year old is violent! Don’t let Mr 70-year old go bashing any more Muslims in Camden!
Obviously absurd.
For the past 11 years, for the most part it’s run against the grain of the cultural orthodoxy to speak truth to power about these kind of racists. Xenophobes and their fallacious memes have been a protected species against the supposed predation of a conspiracy of political correctness.
We’ve been told they are widening debate. We’ve been told they are fighting for freedom of speech (even when they expect to not be criticised – what an overblown sense of self-entitlement). They aren’t.
What we have had is a bunch of ignorant and lazy people; too lazy to do their homework and too unenlightened to overcome their self-imposed childishness when facts are presented before them. These people don’t deserve respect and they certainly don’t deserve victim status.
Their ideas are poorly argued, they don’t honestly respect other’s right to be critical and they are the ones victimising other groups of people.
They aren’t un-equal partners in democratic discourse because of some politically correct witch-hunt, they have a lesser status in the partnership because they willfully don’t engage as fully as their interlocutors; they don’t bring the same quality of informed and considered opinion to the table and they don’t afford their opponents the liberties that they themselves demand.
Their position in public debate is substandard because their participation is substandard. It’s self imposed.
They aren’t uniform in their distribution and I’m sure that Camden isn’t 100% made up of these kinds of lazy-minded types, but geez, there has to be a lot of them there. Enough to make any sane and humane person question why they would want to live there, much less build a school.
My immediate concern about a secular Camden (as a part of a secular Australia) is therefore not the building of a religious private school, but rather if Government is going to preference a sectarian bias in lieu of legitimate opposition. Something the state shouldn’t do.
I’d much prefer to just consider the merits of the school. But a good part of Camden isn’t.
~ Bruce











Did you see Salam Cafe last week? See Camden or Islamden.
You may find my comment in the spam box; I had a link in it…
Ah okay… I’ll get right on it.
The cheeky bugger. I like him already.
I haven’t checked out Salam Café yet but I’ve wanted to (in expectation that at least it’s better than Marx and Venus), although I’ve been told that it can alienate atheists. Said claim was apparently based on a supposed quip about a satirical Muslim cleric coming together with a Christian on the grounds that atheist kids go to hell, or some such.
I’m not sure I share the conviction about the accusation of atheist vilification, especially without seeing it myself. The Uncle Sam example does lend credence to the idea that it’s all quite tongue in cheek, which I’m fine with.
I’ll have to check out this Uncle Sam Camden skit ASAP.
Well yes, Muslims do tend not to be atheists…
Yes, but that doesn’t mean they have to rally with other faiths around my impending damnation does it?
Education of Muslim Children
London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.
Today in Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim
education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was
addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar
but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have
attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim
school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim
children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role model.
Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.
Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.
Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a
problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not
want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours
from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.
More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school
system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60
years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British
Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least
likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated
500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the
state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are
underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education
is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others. Let Muslim
community educate its own children so that they can develop their own
Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of
the British society rather than becoming a buden.
We are living in an English speaking country and English is an
international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well
versed in standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu
and other community languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?
It is not only the Muslim community who would like to send their children to
Muslim school. Sikh and Hindu communities have started setting up their
schools. Last week. British Black Community has planned the first all black
school with Black teachers in Birmingham.
Scotland’s first state funded Muslim school could get the go-ahead within
months after First Munister Alex Salmond declared he was sympathetic towards
the needs and demands of the Muslim community.
Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
So why should the parents of non-Muslim children fund Muslim schools, if those schools are going to discriminate against their children? Why should British taxpayers feel happy about funding schools which have a policy of discriminating against them because of their religion.
And how does the inculcation of such bigotry in the students who do attend Muslim-only schools–and discriminating against people because of their religious background is the very definition of bigotry–help develop those students into useful members of a plural liberal democratic society like Britain?
Iftikhar Ahmad,
Just a piece of advice that you obviously need; don’t spam people’s blogs with this polemic of yours. It will generate ill faith between you and any decent interlocutor you come across, and to xenophobes it probably makes you look like the author of a “Nigerian scam” email.
At the very least, it shows an unwillingness to meaningfully engage with people.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods.
There is no need for the teachers to be Muslim for Muslim children to learn from them.
Moreover, in the global village these kids grow up in they need to be accepting of non-Muslims. Therefore any staff member who openly opines that it is okay for a religious test for employment in a secular role (i.e. science teacher, English teacher, LotE teacher etc) is unsuitable as a role model, for any children Muslim or otherwise.
Indeed, they are unsuitable for registration as a teacher in a liberal democracy.
I’m not against private schools (in general), nor private schools that give affirmative action towards the under-served needs of Muslim Children (something that public schools are capable of doing anyway – even some Catholic Private Schools in Australia do this), nor private schools with a Mosque appended or integrated (with checks and balances to keep secular funding spent in a secular manner) into the school.
Schools that follow the recent faith school model in the UK and the model which you advocate for, in my opinion should be shut down in as far as state funding and status as educational institutions. What you propose, effectively the inculcation of religious apartheid, is child abuse.
meanwhile the property value of Camden has fallen into negative territory.
The Koranic society has actually had to PAY someone to take the land they bought off their hands.
The yanks have their mortgage crisis, we have sub-prime suburbs.
Why does the scorn of the muslim hoardes surprise you Bruce? you are an infidel to them, they behead people like you as a sideshow in their markets.
Sometimes I think Mao was right.
Not all Muslims treat me with scorn, not by a long shot. I’ve been openly an atheist ever since I stopped pretending to be Christian to get adults to get off my case while chasing girls in the 80’s, and this never got on the nerves of any of my Muslim friends.
Indeed, nor the Muslim friends of a Muslim that once lived with me.
Not all of Islam(nor Christendom for that matter) is full of bat-s**t crazy lunatics you know!
Bruce, re Salam Cafe – I actually chuckled at the anti-atheist comment on the episode in question (15 May). In the context it was probably an acceptable thing to say, similar to an atheist comedian having a go at Muslims. Both sides have to have a sense of humour.
On the other hand, if they had said the same thing and substituted atheists for, say, Catholics would it have been seen as as acceptable?
The show has quite strong religious overtones and pushes Muslim ideals, if, as some say, it’s just a show for Muslims then that’s OK. On the other hand, if they are trying to show to the rest of the community that Muslims are funny and inclusive it falls somewhat off the mark IMHO.
and if you want to check out the Uncle Sam skit it’s on youtube
have a look and tells us what you think.
Ninglun put me on to the Uncle Sam skit last week. It was pretty good I reckon.
If that kind of form can be maintained then the show has some hope.
On the other hand, if they had said the same thing and substituted atheists for, say, Catholics would it have been seen as as acceptable?
I’m sure Father Bob could have handled it (isn’t he a dead set legend?), don’t know about Pell though…
Father Bob would have written it!
Bruce, of course you are right, not all religious people (or a-religious people for that matter) are zealots.
There are plenty of moderates who are more than capable of getting along but it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the “bat-s*&t crazy” variety are disdainful of any views which don’t co-incide with their own.
What a shame it’s still FATHER Bob, I’d be stoked if it was Arch-bishop Bob, THAT’D be something to see.